1 00:00:23,290 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:32,209 --> 00:00:27,790 yes it's the skeptic zone episode number 3 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:32,219 134 the 15th of april 2011 Richard 4 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:33,930 Saunders here with you from Sydney 5 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:36,630 Australia now let's have a look at 6 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:42,410 meijer my script here for today's show 7 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:48,530 it says we have a story on harp harp ah 8 00:00:54,979 --> 00:00:52,770 harp over-the-horizon radar systems and 9 00:00:57,380 --> 00:00:54,989 high-altitude atmospheric research 10 00:00:58,700 --> 00:00:57,390 projects ooh that sounds like 11 00:01:01,939 --> 00:00:58,710 interesting stuff you know some people 12 00:01:04,009 --> 00:01:01,949 think that by scientists zapping things 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:04,019 up into the ionosphere in the 14 00:01:09,289 --> 00:01:05,610 stratosphere in the hemisphere and all 15 00:01:12,380 --> 00:01:09,299 the spheres that humans are responsible 16 00:01:16,670 --> 00:01:12,390 for weather control and even things like 17 00:01:19,190 --> 00:01:16,680 the Japanese tsunami hmm i don't think 18 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:19,200 so anyway today Maynard Maynard will 19 00:01:24,140 --> 00:01:21,450 interview associate professor Colin 20 00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:24,150 waters from the center for space physics 21 00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:27,600 at the University of Newcastle all about 22 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:30,900 this over-the-horizon radar and the 23 00:01:36,460 --> 00:01:32,729 high-altitude atmospheric research 24 00:01:38,749 --> 00:01:36,470 project look out conspiracy theorists 25 00:01:41,810 --> 00:01:38,759 following that we have a report from our 26 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:41,820 good friend and us correspondent travis 27 00:01:49,580 --> 00:01:45,540 roy from the Granite State skeptics he 28 00:01:51,649 --> 00:01:49,590 went along lucky guy that he is he went 29 00:01:55,039 --> 00:01:51,659 along to the northeast conference on 30 00:02:03,950 --> 00:01:55,049 science and skepticism known as Nexus or 31 00:02:06,399 --> 00:02:03,960 nice need Nick's yep that and met so 32 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:06,409 many great people and more importantly 33 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:09,450 interviewed some really fantastic people 34 00:02:13,370 --> 00:02:12,209 starting off of George rub then Brian 35 00:02:16,310 --> 00:02:13,380 Dunning 36 00:02:18,620 --> 00:02:16,320 and Jeannie Scott Eugenie Scott what a 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:18,630 lineup that's coming up a little later 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:21,330 on in the show and to wrap up the show 39 00:02:26,930 --> 00:02:23,370 we've got a report that went to air here 40 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:26,940 in Australia in Adelaide the Today 41 00:02:33,050 --> 00:02:30,000 Tonight program on channel 7 ran a story 42 00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:33,060 are somewhat critical about homeopathy 43 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:35,280 now I wonder if that's something to do 44 00:02:41,090 --> 00:02:38,430 with the lengthy email i sent them about 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:41,100 the topic and why i actually end up on 46 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:44,850 the report hmm listen to the report its 47 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:46,500 offer video but you don't need the 48 00:02:51,530 --> 00:02:48,630 pictures i think you'll get it they talk 49 00:02:53,890 --> 00:02:51,540 to such people as well myself and Simon 50 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:53,900 Singh and a few other people but listen 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:02:56,220 when it comes on I want you to pay 52 00:03:01,210 --> 00:02:58,850 particular attention to what the 53 00:03:03,980 --> 00:03:01,220 representative of the homeopathic 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:03,990 industry has to say and her 55 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:07,530 justifications there are there just a 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:10,290 classic well that's enough from me sit 57 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:13,290 back grab that lovely ice-cold 58 00:03:39,710 --> 00:03:36,720 here's may not spooky action at the 59 00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:42,180 well yeah I was in the office of the day 60 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:43,480 and someone come up to me and they said 61 00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:45,580 Maynard we need to know more about the 62 00:03:50,790 --> 00:03:47,680 high-altitude atmospheric research 63 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:50,800 project harp as it's called now as it 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:52,150 would be we have someone at Newcastle 65 00:03:56,010 --> 00:03:53,890 University who has worked on that Anna's 66 00:03:57,630 --> 00:03:56,020 worked on versions of similar things in 67 00:03:59,490 --> 00:03:57,640 Australia and by the way we're at the 68 00:04:01,260 --> 00:03:59,500 pointy end of the theory and the 69 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:01,270 technology here too so we're going to 70 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:02,650 have to ask someone who really knows and 71 00:04:06,990 --> 00:04:05,050 he does know associate professor Colin 72 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:07,000 waters University of Newcastle whinnies 73 00:04:12,030 --> 00:04:09,640 office oh it's great to be here and it's 74 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:12,040 very confusing to be here I've got a now 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:13,420 by the way what is that stuff on your 76 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:14,770 whiteboard there by the way it looks 77 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:16,930 exactly like you would expect in a 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:20,140 physics office yeah so then have you 79 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:22,810 solved something well yeah that where 80 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:24,490 the plans for some of our research 81 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:26,860 there's a picture up there of the 82 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:30,310 ionosphere and radars and ionosphere 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:32,320 heaters and then over on the right there 84 00:04:36,690 --> 00:04:35,050 there's a whole set of steps that we 85 00:04:40,170 --> 00:04:36,700 need to do to do some of our computer 86 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:40,180 simulations just before we get on what 87 00:04:44,970 --> 00:04:42,270 drew you to physics in the first place 88 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:44,980 what why why is that your specialty I 89 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:48,250 guess a high school teacher high school 90 00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:52,360 physics teacher expressed the the 91 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:55,750 physics in a way I understood and got me 92 00:04:59,370 --> 00:04:57,970 interested and excited about it so I 93 00:05:03,420 --> 00:04:59,380 just continued on from the high school 94 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:03,430 into into university and became involved 95 00:05:09,030 --> 00:05:06,190 in the space physics side with the group 96 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:09,040 here at Newcastle and found yourself 97 00:05:13,470 --> 00:05:11,260 working on the with the North American 98 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:13,480 Harper ray for a while now what are they 99 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:15,700 doing there because a lot of people get 100 00:05:18,330 --> 00:05:16,930 confused about what they're doing but 101 00:05:20,850 --> 00:05:18,340 you've actually been there you've done 102 00:05:23,460 --> 00:05:20,860 it so you can tell us yeah yeah so the 103 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:23,470 harp system is in Alaska and it's 104 00:05:28,020 --> 00:05:26,050 basically used for an aspheric basic an 105 00:05:30,830 --> 00:05:28,030 aspheric research I have a 106 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:30,840 radiofrequency transmitter array 107 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:33,130 consistently of prosti Paula antennas 108 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:34,930 and it operates between 2 and 10 109 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:38,230 megahertz and the reason why it operates 110 00:05:42,030 --> 00:05:40,390 at those frequencies is so that they can 111 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:42,040 deposit the radio energy in the 112 00:05:47,690 --> 00:05:44,830 ionosphere at an altitude of two to 113 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:47,700 three hundred kilometers from Earth and 114 00:05:52,430 --> 00:05:50,550 when they do that are they doing it for 115 00:05:54,470 --> 00:05:52,440 weather prediction 116 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:54,480 doing it for communication reasons or 117 00:05:58,520 --> 00:05:55,740 they're doing it for over-the-horizon 118 00:06:01,100 --> 00:05:58,530 radar exactly what are they doing it for 119 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:01,110 ya so most of it is just pure research 120 00:06:06,770 --> 00:06:03,330 in an aspheric physics and how the 121 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:06,780 honesty behaves and it has spin-offs in 122 00:06:12,950 --> 00:06:10,110 the communications industry hf radio 123 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:12,960 propagation was very popular in the past 124 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:15,690 and nowadays most of the communications 125 00:06:20,420 --> 00:06:17,490 done with satellite and mobile phones 126 00:06:22,460 --> 00:06:20,430 are now satellite but some of the 127 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:22,470 defence people have now realized that 128 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:26,970 the hf propagation technology is coming 129 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:29,850 back in to be more important because a 130 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:31,650 lot of the satellite communications in 131 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:34,110 defence now go onto the internet which 132 00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:36,630 is not necessarily all that secure hmm 133 00:06:42,020 --> 00:06:38,760 so the defense guys are now starting to 134 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:42,030 use HF comms more morally especially in 135 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:44,490 Canada in the northern part of America 136 00:06:47,930 --> 00:06:46,650 yes just but people think why they're 137 00:06:49,370 --> 00:06:47,940 pumping all this power up into the 138 00:06:51,050 --> 00:06:49,380 atmosphere it must have been having some 139 00:06:53,030 --> 00:06:51,060 effects somewhere on something this is 140 00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:53,040 where you you're out their theories come 141 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:54,780 in how much power do they pump up there 142 00:06:59,180 --> 00:06:56,970 so with HAARP you're talking about three 143 00:07:00,680 --> 00:06:59,190 three-and-a-half megawatts the sort of 144 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:00,690 energy that's actually getting deposited 145 00:07:04,970 --> 00:07:02,310 in the ionosphere though I was only 146 00:07:06,380 --> 00:07:04,980 microwatts per square meter which is of 147 00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:06,390 the order of a million times less than 148 00:07:10,220 --> 00:07:08,160 the sort of energy that's going into the 149 00:07:13,070 --> 00:07:10,230 honest here just from natural solar 150 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:13,080 solar processes and why do you think 151 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:14,760 people have developed theories about it 152 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:16,530 is because the actual science of it is 153 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:18,690 pretty hard to grasp yeah it's difficult 154 00:07:22,730 --> 00:07:20,510 for me to understand why people 155 00:07:25,550 --> 00:07:22,740 generated some of these funny ideas 156 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:25,560 coming from a radio and ionosphere 157 00:07:31,490 --> 00:07:28,650 physics background you're not heeding 158 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:31,500 the ionosphere to to the level of 159 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:33,150 punching holes in or anything like that 160 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:36,110 all you're doing is just stirring up the 161 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:38,760 components the ionized gas in the 162 00:07:44,270 --> 00:07:41,850 ionosphere in order to study just the 163 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:44,280 basic physical processes what's going on 164 00:07:48,650 --> 00:07:46,290 and there are joint research projects 165 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:48,660 with HAARP and over the rise and radar 166 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:52,740 systems so that slightly heating the 167 00:07:56,420 --> 00:07:54,810 ionosphere at a certain altitude will 168 00:07:59,600 --> 00:07:56,430 light up a section of the ionosphere 169 00:08:01,279 --> 00:07:59,610 that makes it easier to study using an 170 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:01,289 over the rosen radar coming in over the 171 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:03,180 top we have 172 00:08:07,939 --> 00:08:05,910 a couple of systems here in Australia 173 00:08:10,670 --> 00:08:07,949 over the rise and radar systems that are 174 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:10,680 part of an international network they're 175 00:08:17,570 --> 00:08:13,110 very low power their effective radiated 176 00:08:19,969 --> 00:08:17,580 powers around 12 to 15 watts and there's 177 00:08:22,279 --> 00:08:19,979 one located in Tasmania and one located 178 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:22,289 in New Zealand we are building one in 179 00:08:29,659 --> 00:08:25,530 Adelaide and we do have plans for 180 00:08:31,779 --> 00:08:29,669 putting one at Williamtown these radar 181 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:31,789 systems are for purim aspheric research 182 00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:36,270 they study in conjunction with the 24 183 00:08:43,130 --> 00:08:39,120 other international radars basic honors 184 00:08:44,990 --> 00:08:43,140 for plasma physics and the perturbations 185 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:45,000 in the atmosphere that we need to 186 00:08:49,490 --> 00:08:47,490 understand if we want to improve our 187 00:08:51,710 --> 00:08:49,500 communication systems if we want to 188 00:08:55,460 --> 00:08:51,720 understand what the honest feed us the 189 00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:55,470 GPS signals and errors in positioning 190 00:09:01,940 --> 00:08:59,279 for GPS and things like that now it's 191 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:01,950 been going on since the 80s I would 192 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:03,750 imagine that'd be fairly advanced or 193 00:09:07,100 --> 00:09:04,920 we're still in the early stages of 194 00:09:10,579 --> 00:09:07,110 learning well we've made a lot of 195 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:10,589 progress since the 1980s for example 196 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:13,170 most of our research radars are pointed 197 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:15,330 towards the auroral zones and we've 198 00:09:21,710 --> 00:09:18,150 discovered some new I'm aspheric 199 00:09:25,010 --> 00:09:21,720 features near the auroral zones in terms 200 00:09:26,930 --> 00:09:25,020 of having the ionized gas of the 201 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:26,940 honestly we call the plasma where it 202 00:09:32,060 --> 00:09:29,040 goes how it responds to different levels 203 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:32,070 of solar activity and now the radars in 204 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:34,170 the international scene is starting to 205 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:37,020 be located more equator wood and we've 206 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:40,250 discovered that the mid-latitude region 207 00:09:46,250 --> 00:09:43,050 used to be considered to be very quiet 208 00:09:47,510 --> 00:09:46,260 and dull and boring but some recent 209 00:09:49,699 --> 00:09:47,520 research has shown that that's not the 210 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:49,709 case I just people at home what exactly 211 00:09:53,210 --> 00:09:51,930 is the the mid-latitude region because 212 00:09:55,130 --> 00:09:53,220 some I would thought that would mean the 213 00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:55,140 equator if you look at the earth as a 214 00:10:00,079 --> 00:09:57,839 sphere and the equatorial region 215 00:10:02,510 --> 00:10:00,089 obviously near the equator and there are 216 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:02,520 various an aspheric processes that are 217 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:04,770 unique to that region so you're talking 218 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:06,570 about somewhere from the equator down to 219 00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:09,540 the top of Cape York that sort of band 220 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:11,880 around the earth and then the 221 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:14,689 high-latitude region is the auroral zone 222 00:10:21,619 --> 00:10:17,730 so you're looking from the pole to a 223 00:10:24,289 --> 00:10:21,629 latitude of 60 65 degrees so between 224 00:10:26,119 --> 00:10:24,299 that high-latitude regions of about 60 225 00:10:28,699 --> 00:10:26,129 degrees down to roundabout where 226 00:10:32,239 --> 00:10:28,709 Queensland is is mid latitude so there's 227 00:10:34,749 --> 00:10:32,249 three broad regions artists for physics 228 00:10:37,699 --> 00:10:34,759 that now you mentioned that will have 229 00:10:39,650 --> 00:10:37,709 benefits from GPS benefits EE 230 00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:39,660 communication benefits but there's also 231 00:10:43,009 --> 00:10:41,100 benefit to the country of actually 232 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:43,019 having people that are trained in being 233 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:44,610 able to do this because this is the 234 00:10:47,989 --> 00:10:46,290 high-tech stuff that we don't do a lot 235 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:47,999 of in Australia is that correct yes 236 00:10:51,379 --> 00:10:49,529 that's true it's important to have 237 00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:51,389 personnel trained in this sort of area 238 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:54,089 and knowledge because of the the defense 239 00:10:58,429 --> 00:10:55,350 applications that we have here in 240 00:11:00,109 --> 00:10:58,439 Australia the apartment of Defense rely 241 00:11:02,269 --> 00:11:00,119 very heavily on to half of the rise and 242 00:11:04,579 --> 00:11:02,279 radar technology with their jawn system 243 00:11:06,919 --> 00:11:04,589 and they rely on the universities to 244 00:11:08,689 --> 00:11:06,929 feed qualified personnel through now do 245 00:11:10,669 --> 00:11:08,699 you think there's a big future for this 246 00:11:12,350 --> 00:11:10,679 because it's an expensive thing and 247 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:12,360 there's a lot of people competing for 248 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:13,889 funding how difficult is it to get it 249 00:11:18,259 --> 00:11:16,889 going well here at Newcastle we've been 250 00:11:21,619 --> 00:11:18,269 doing this sort of research since the 251 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:21,629 mid-1960s so our group here has been 252 00:11:26,509 --> 00:11:24,569 going for quite some time we have a lot 253 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:26,519 of international collaborations going 254 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:31,850 with the UK Canada the US and the French 255 00:11:37,609 --> 00:11:34,110 and there's a group in New Zealand we 256 00:11:39,289 --> 00:11:37,619 work with and so on in terms of funding 257 00:11:41,299 --> 00:11:39,299 our main source of funding comes from 258 00:11:43,579 --> 00:11:41,309 the Australian Government with a RC 259 00:11:47,059 --> 00:11:43,589 grants and so on so we rely very heavily 260 00:11:49,369 --> 00:11:47,069 on those and as someone who knows the 261 00:11:51,439 --> 00:11:49,379 area inside-out is a bit frustrating 262 00:11:52,669 --> 00:11:51,449 that the layman get really worried just 263 00:11:54,379 --> 00:11:52,679 they hit terms like hitting the 264 00:11:57,019 --> 00:11:54,389 ionosphere they hear that you know the 265 00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:57,029 American defense department's into it 266 00:12:01,879 --> 00:11:58,079 that kind of thing and they think that 267 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:01,889 there's something wacky going on how can 268 00:12:05,479 --> 00:12:04,110 you allow those fears because you've 269 00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:05,489 been there you've been to the harp array 270 00:12:08,479 --> 00:12:07,079 and you're doing it here in Australia 271 00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,489 and we haven't had any earthquakes in 272 00:12:12,979 --> 00:12:11,040 Australia just recently I don't think no 273 00:12:15,109 --> 00:12:12,989 no certainly none caused by the Harper 274 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:15,119 right yes yeah and why would people be 275 00:12:17,749 --> 00:12:16,410 thinking that would cause it anyway 276 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:17,759 because you're saying it doesn't need it 277 00:12:23,629 --> 00:12:20,910 up much yeah maybe it's because the harp 278 00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:23,639 array is with under the umbrella of us 279 00:12:28,570 --> 00:12:26,140 defense and 280 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:28,580 that perhaps they think it's secret and 281 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:30,190 they can't get any information from it 282 00:12:35,410 --> 00:12:32,600 which is untrue they have open days 283 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:35,420 quite regularly you can go on to the 284 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:38,290 heart base without having any security 285 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,580 clearance or anything like that any 286 00:12:45,310 --> 00:12:43,040 international people or even their own 287 00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:45,320 citizens they can visit the HAARP site 288 00:12:50,110 --> 00:12:47,870 anytime they want and the freedom of 289 00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:50,120 information of what they do there is is 290 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:51,830 phenomenal to have it on the Internet 291 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:53,690 they'll provide you with it I'll show 292 00:12:58,480 --> 00:12:55,910 you stuff when you go there why it's 293 00:13:01,540 --> 00:12:58,490 been so many conspiracy theories around 294 00:13:04,449 --> 00:13:01,550 harp I'm not sure considering they also 295 00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:04,459 have a similar system in Norway so 296 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:06,140 trauma so normally they have a system 297 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:08,390 called ice cap and it does essentially 298 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:10,910 the same thing it's a ionospheric heater 299 00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,010 that they don't seem to be too many 300 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:15,200 conspiracy theories around ice cap and 301 00:13:20,139 --> 00:13:17,420 they also have another heater on 302 00:13:22,180 --> 00:13:20,149 Svalbard and I work with the people 303 00:13:24,190 --> 00:13:22,190 there it was manufactured by the 304 00:13:26,290 --> 00:13:24,200 University of Leicester in the UK and 305 00:13:28,750 --> 00:13:26,300 there's another an aspheric heating 306 00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,760 system very similar to harp although a 307 00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,560 little bit lower power that's operating 308 00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:32,959 there now in Australia we don't operate 309 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:36,260 any an aspheric heating systems we just 310 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:38,270 operate the over the rise and radar 311 00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:42,050 low-powered radar systems so we don't 312 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:44,120 actually beam the radio frequency up 313 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:46,910 into the ionosphere and heat it we just 314 00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:49,490 put a electro magnetic probe up there to 315 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:52,190 see see what's going on now I've seen 316 00:13:57,940 --> 00:13:55,010 the Charter when the best time to be 317 00:14:00,730 --> 00:13:57,950 operating is for comms is it basically 318 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:00,740 at night or midday or is the best time 319 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:03,020 to do a nova horizon made our and and 320 00:14:06,579 --> 00:14:04,850 now sort of major project is pretty much 321 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:06,589 but in the morning is the best time for 322 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:08,930 he already depends as you said on the 323 00:14:16,269 --> 00:14:12,770 honest conditions but what we normally 324 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:16,279 do is sense the ionosphere and then 325 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:19,270 shift the frequency so you can operate 326 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:22,910 an HF comms link any time of day 327 00:14:27,579 --> 00:14:24,170 provided you choose the appropriate 328 00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:27,589 frequency and the frequency changes 329 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:29,240 during the day and with solar activity 330 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:31,130 and depending on the composition of the 331 00:14:34,449 --> 00:14:33,260 atmosphere what it's doing and for 332 00:14:35,769 --> 00:14:34,459 people out there that might wanna go 333 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:35,779 somewhere on the internet to find out 334 00:14:39,949 --> 00:14:37,769 more about this and what the harper 335 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:39,959 is about and try and get the facts and 336 00:14:45,169 --> 00:14:41,850 balanced against theories where should 337 00:14:46,999 --> 00:14:45,179 they go for the international over the 338 00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:47,009 rise and radar research program it's 339 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:52,350 super da hua p LED you and that gives 340 00:14:56,329 --> 00:14:53,790 you an overview of the sort of 341 00:14:58,460 --> 00:14:56,339 experimental research radars we operate 342 00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,470 and then of course there's our 343 00:15:05,869 --> 00:15:01,040 university of newcastle space physics 344 00:15:08,929 --> 00:15:05,879 website which is plasmid newcastle edu 345 00:15:10,819 --> 00:15:08,939 /a you and the whole thing is pretty 346 00:15:13,549 --> 00:15:10,829 open there's nothing being hidden no 347 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:13,559 nothing being hidden and i'm happy for 348 00:15:18,259 --> 00:15:15,769 people to send me emails or chat or 349 00:15:20,059 --> 00:15:18,269 answer any questions about any of sort 350 00:15:22,340 --> 00:15:20,069 of the honors for research we do great 351 00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:22,350 look that thanks for your time Colin you 352 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:42,070 hi this is michael cruz from the 353 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:43,130 committee for the advancement of 354 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:45,050 scientific skepticism at the center for 355 00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:47,450 inquiry canada Cass is committed to 356 00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:48,920 critically examining scientific 357 00:15:53,290 --> 00:15:50,840 technological and medical claims in the 358 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:53,300 public forum across Canada working with 359 00:15:57,460 --> 00:15:55,670 our expert advisors local cfi branches 360 00:15:58,840 --> 00:15:57,470 and other skeptical groups Cass 361 00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:58,850 confronts the peddlers of pseudoscience 362 00:16:03,850 --> 00:16:01,600 with evidence-based scientific inquiry 363 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:03,860 2010 has been a watershed here for the 364 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:06,170 sceptical movement in Canada and in 2011 365 00:16:10,390 --> 00:16:08,060 cast will continue fighting bad science 366 00:16:11,650 --> 00:16:10,400 in the media and the government if you 367 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:11,660 would like to become involved in the 368 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:12,980 fight to promote critical thinking in 369 00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:14,510 Canada or if you have a concern about 370 00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:16,040 the spread of pseudoscience in the 371 00:16:21,130 --> 00:16:18,230 Canadian media please contact us at 372 00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:21,140 casts at cfi canada CA you can also 373 00:16:25,930 --> 00:16:23,870 follow us on twitter at cfi casts and on 374 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:25,940 facebook at cass at center for inquiry 375 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:28,790 canada casts fighting pseudoscience 376 00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:46,660 the Northeast Conference on science and 377 00:16:51,370 --> 00:16:49,220 skepticism is a yearly conference put on 378 00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:51,380 by New York City skeptics and the New 379 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:54,200 England skeptic society it takes place 380 00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:56,510 in New York City and this year was their 381 00:17:01,810 --> 00:16:59,120 first year doing a multi-day conference 382 00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,820 it took place on saturday and sunday 383 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:04,400 with events happening on friday night 384 00:17:09,939 --> 00:17:07,130 and saturday night speakers this year 385 00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:09,949 included John runny Eugenie Scott and 386 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:13,699 keynote with phil plait there was also a 387 00:17:20,199 --> 00:17:16,970 number of panels including one that had 388 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:20,209 Brian Dunning Sadie Crabtree Jennifer 389 00:17:24,669 --> 00:17:22,610 Michael heck among others there was also 390 00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:24,679 live recordings of the rationally 391 00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,870 speaking podcast and the skeptics guide 392 00:17:30,790 --> 00:17:29,120 to the universe I had a chance to sit 393 00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:30,800 down with a number of the speakers to 394 00:17:37,870 --> 00:17:32,900 get their take on what they thought of 395 00:17:48,649 --> 00:17:41,840 9 by Super Bowl extortion one in ten 396 00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:48,659 million all right this is travis from 397 00:17:53,899 --> 00:17:49,950 the skeptic zone i'm sitting here with 398 00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:53,909 George Arab with Nexus 2011 just about 399 00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:55,380 to begin how's it going George good 400 00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:58,799 another nexus another nexus yes I knew 401 00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:01,919 what 17 in once or something you've been 402 00:18:05,180 --> 00:18:03,419 with them from the start Evan you start 403 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:05,190 yeah yeah real real honor to be here 404 00:18:09,769 --> 00:18:07,110 again yay so what are you doing form 405 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,779 this time I'm on a panel today which has 406 00:18:15,049 --> 00:18:12,960 to do with the trusting information in 407 00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,059 the media and then I have which is fine 408 00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:18,000 but the the big coolest thing is tonight 409 00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:20,460 I'm doing a concert with my band which 410 00:18:23,149 --> 00:18:21,539 I'm very excited for because I've never 411 00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:23,159 actually done a performance at one of 412 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:26,039 these skeptical events with a band so 413 00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:27,330 it's a three piece band playing tonight 414 00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:29,340 wow that's very exciting yeah I'm really 415 00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:31,260 psyched how long has your set for we got 416 00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:34,140 a nice huge to our set Wow tonight from 417 00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:38,520 832 to roll up to it 1030 I'm very 418 00:18:41,690 --> 00:18:40,440 excited I'm break said Eric and Vinny 419 00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:41,700 are going to be joining me too 420 00:18:46,580 --> 00:18:44,340 exceedingly talented musicians that will 421 00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,590 completely show me up and you get to see 422 00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:48,000 what actual musicians look like to me 423 00:18:51,649 --> 00:18:50,340 very exciting fantastic is there 424 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:51,659 anything else you're looking forward to 425 00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:53,460 it Nexus holla Phil Plait always 426 00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:55,799 delivers a nice speech I'm sure and just 427 00:19:00,380 --> 00:18:57,960 you know for me the coolest thing about 428 00:19:03,049 --> 00:19:00,390 this is that is the hang the opportunity 429 00:19:05,269 --> 00:19:03,059 to sort of make plans for the next thing 430 00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:05,279 whatever that next thing is whether it's 431 00:19:12,830 --> 00:19:10,110 a tam whether it's a whatever a dragon 432 00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:12,840 con this is kind of where those plans 433 00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:14,700 are made or even just just to meet up 434 00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,140 with friends down the road at some point 435 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:19,600 so to bump into all the SGU people again 436 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:22,650 it's always so cool it's just so nice 437 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:25,450 all right she's an opportunity to make 438 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:27,610 plans for the next fun event yeah and I 439 00:19:31,169 --> 00:19:29,260 think that's part of the the nice thing 440 00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:31,179 about this year Nexus being multi day 441 00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:32,590 because we're able to hang out with 442 00:19:36,659 --> 00:19:34,750 people a lot of people i was at nexus 443 00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:36,669 one a lot of us were kind of in and out 444 00:19:40,260 --> 00:19:38,140 the same day so he didn't get a chance 445 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:40,270 to hang out after the event I've always 446 00:19:43,409 --> 00:19:41,590 had gigs I've always liked done myself 447 00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:43,419 and I've had to run last year I attended 448 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:45,340 my set and then I think four hours later 449 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:46,990 I was on a stage in the poke and I was 450 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:49,150 playing for five people dancing so it's 451 00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:51,610 kind of both both sides of my career but 452 00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:54,520 I said this before about a bench like 453 00:20:00,210 --> 00:19:57,520 Tam or things like QED or whatever like 454 00:20:03,539 --> 00:20:00,220 the speakers are great and the events 455 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:03,549 are the speeches are interesting a lot 456 00:20:07,169 --> 00:20:05,140 of information that they provide is 457 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:07,179 available in other places what these 458 00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:09,490 things are so great at providing though 459 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:11,380 is a opportunity for the meet each other 460 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:13,510 so you literally get to meet sort of 461 00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:17,830 these faces and avatars and hat names in 462 00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:20,320 meatspace yeah and then you get to sort 463 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:21,760 of say hey let's get together and do 464 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:23,380 this other thing or let's our own 465 00:20:26,130 --> 00:20:24,610 podcast or let's start our own 466 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:26,140 conference or whatever and that's that's 467 00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:28,390 Annie's is so awesome language great so 468 00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,380 what do you get coming up you're doing 469 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:31,360 you're going to be at am-9 yeah they 470 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:33,640 asked me to MC tam nine which is and 471 00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:36,130 ridiculously exciting it's very bizarre 472 00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:39,940 to come from being purely a fan you know 473 00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:43,120 five six years ago to hearing about Tam 474 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:45,940 to attending tam to performing at Tim's 475 00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:48,220 emceeing tam within the span of you know 476 00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:51,340 a small dogs life is is pretty cool has 477 00:20:56,490 --> 00:20:54,070 you get anything else coming up uh yeah 478 00:20:58,049 --> 00:20:56,500 bunch of performances Baltic on is 479 00:21:00,299 --> 00:20:58,059 coming up that's another sort of fun 480 00:21:03,330 --> 00:21:00,309 more sci-fi festival that happens at a 481 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:03,340 Morial day and Dragon Con of course and 482 00:21:08,029 --> 00:21:05,620 just going to try to keep performing and 483 00:21:11,330 --> 00:21:08,039 writing and podcasting and all other 484 00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:11,340 great well thank you very much sweet 485 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:14,140 seriously here working right nation's 486 00:21:21,419 --> 00:21:18,010 emperor generally but not reckon paws 487 00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:21,429 yes so this is travis i'm sitting here 488 00:21:27,539 --> 00:21:24,190 with brian dunning thanks go to a calm 489 00:21:30,510 --> 00:21:27,549 of course and let's say so this is your 490 00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:30,520 first nexus right yeah i heard about the 491 00:21:34,289 --> 00:21:32,860 first two and so wanted to go there but 492 00:21:36,299 --> 00:21:34,299 like I'm the last person to find out 493 00:21:38,730 --> 00:21:36,309 about anything so I didn't find out 494 00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:38,740 about both previous neck necks I until 495 00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,840 they were already over but I was really 496 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:42,159 excited to be able to come out for this 497 00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:44,080 one right and what are you doing at this 498 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:46,990 one I'm going to be on a panel with with 499 00:21:51,690 --> 00:21:49,330 John Renick moderating and it's asking 500 00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:51,700 what I think is probably the single most 501 00:21:55,649 --> 00:21:53,590 important question it's probably the 502 00:22:00,060 --> 00:21:55,659 average question that I get in all of my 503 00:22:03,299 --> 00:22:00,070 emails and it's how do how do people 504 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:03,309 know what information to believe so what 505 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,870 I'll say you got any other projects 506 00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:06,640 coming up by you're gonna be are you 507 00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:08,740 speaking at stake tanner I'm not 508 00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:11,679 speaking at am however I'm yeah I do 509 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:14,500 have one of your projects that I'm 510 00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:17,110 working on I'm actually making a push I 511 00:22:22,529 --> 00:22:19,960 think it's a reasonable goal to be doing 512 00:22:25,139 --> 00:22:22,539 skep tied and related projects full-time 513 00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:25,149 by the end of the year wow so that's 514 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:26,529 exciting check back a year from now 515 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:28,330 we'll see if it came true or not that's 516 00:22:33,149 --> 00:22:29,470 what I'm working for so I'm working 517 00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:33,159 extremely hard every day trying to make 518 00:22:37,019 --> 00:22:34,630 that happen I just keep looking out 519 00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,029 better more quality information better 520 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:39,039 more quality information like your 521 00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:41,230 rubberized the hoop picture from your 522 00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:43,750 last in fact just like the rubberized 523 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:45,230 poo picture yeah 524 00:22:50,289 --> 00:22:47,210 I'm going I'm trying to do more in fact 525 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:50,299 videos of course I'm trying to do better 526 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:51,890 in a better job with the sceptile 527 00:22:57,010 --> 00:22:55,250 episodes and there's just a whole bunch 528 00:22:59,500 --> 00:22:57,020 of extra projects that I've got going 529 00:23:01,419 --> 00:22:59,510 with with the website I'm going to be 530 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:01,429 adding some blogs and stuff and all 531 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:05,450 projects designed to improve skep tight 532 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:07,490 and make it more of a commercially 533 00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:10,010 viable product I mean it's always going 534 00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:12,860 to be free like everybody else but you 535 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:14,630 know I've been a strong believer that if 536 00:23:17,380 --> 00:23:15,710 any of this material is going to 537 00:23:19,930 --> 00:23:17,390 actually become relevant it has to be 538 00:23:22,690 --> 00:23:19,940 successful in the marketplace for it to 539 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:22,700 survive well that's exciting yeah so one 540 00:23:25,870 --> 00:23:24,020 thing that I wanted to ask you about 541 00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:25,880 because you don't really get asked about 542 00:23:30,780 --> 00:23:27,950 this very much and i'm a member of it is 543 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:30,790 the skeptic mailing list oh yes yes so 544 00:23:35,950 --> 00:23:32,780 have you been doing anything with that 545 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:35,960 or I'm not done with it will scatter 546 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:38,210 talk it's it's it's an email it's an 547 00:23:43,419 --> 00:23:40,070 email list so it's like a forum except 548 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:43,429 it's all real time email and there's 549 00:23:46,539 --> 00:23:45,110 last time I checked is a couple of weeks 550 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:46,549 ago there are six hundred and sixty 551 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:48,650 people on it so of course someone joke 552 00:23:53,470 --> 00:23:51,410 we just need six more but it's a very 553 00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:53,480 active list it's great it's a lot of fun 554 00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:55,400 it's not something that I'm yet 555 00:23:59,710 --> 00:23:57,830 leveraging in any way to make it really 556 00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,720 bring it in toward make it more part of 557 00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:02,000 the skeptic immunity it's basically just 558 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:05,830 a well moderated skep talk of skeptical 559 00:24:09,460 --> 00:24:07,790 email list or there's lots of really 560 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:09,470 good discussion lots of great people and 561 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:11,510 I think really high quality discussion 562 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:14,090 because we throw out the people who you 563 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:17,030 know what rolls or bread right well 564 00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:18,710 that's it thank you very much hey thank 565 00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:28,350 and i'm sitting here with Eugenie Scott 566 00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:31,840 and we're at Nexus 2011 thanks for 567 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:33,910 joining me we are indeed thank you this 568 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:35,710 is going to be fun so is this your first 569 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:38,320 Nexus this is my first Nexus yes why 570 00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:39,610 don't what do you think about it so far 571 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:41,679 so far it's great I mean they have a 572 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:43,690 really interesting group of speakers and 573 00:24:48,990 --> 00:24:46,960 it's a very well organized meaning you 574 00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:49,000 know the the Bay Area skeptics is just 575 00:24:54,810 --> 00:24:52,120 starting to have our own regional 576 00:24:57,299 --> 00:24:54,820 leading and in fact we were inspired by 577 00:25:00,480 --> 00:24:57,309 what these guys out here and we had our 578 00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:00,490 skeptic al 2010 last year and we're not 579 00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,880 gonna have skeptical 2011 in next month 580 00:25:07,049 --> 00:25:05,440 so I'm kind of watching around the 581 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:07,059 margins here and getting some tips on 582 00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:08,710 how to run a smooth meeting so these 583 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:10,390 guys are doing great wow that's great so 584 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:13,510 what are you giving a talk on well I'm I 585 00:25:19,049 --> 00:25:15,730 am best known as the cheerful person who 586 00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:19,059 gives a really depressing time and today 587 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:21,640 isn't going to be any different the 588 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:24,610 title of my talk is why we still need to 589 00:25:29,940 --> 00:25:27,130 take creationism seriously 590 00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:29,950 and I will be talking about some of the 591 00:25:35,010 --> 00:25:32,860 recent developments well recent within 592 00:25:37,230 --> 00:25:35,020 the last five years its evolution takes 593 00:25:39,450 --> 00:25:37,240 place slowly as you know in the 594 00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:39,460 anti-evolution movement and how much 595 00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:42,600 more subtle the legislation that's being 596 00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:45,040 submitted to legislators around the 597 00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:47,320 country's got the wording is much more 598 00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:49,300 difficult to challenge and it's much 599 00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:52,960 more public friendly shall we say yep so 600 00:25:57,420 --> 00:25:55,720 um what's the latest that's coming I get 601 00:25:59,730 --> 00:25:57,430 your email alerts and there was one I 602 00:26:03,000 --> 00:25:59,740 think it was Tennessee Tennessee yep 603 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:03,010 just last Thursday I think it is the 604 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:05,080 fine state of Tennessee which is a 605 00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:07,770 wonderful beautiful part of our country 606 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:11,020 the House of Representatives there past 607 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:15,310 the its version of a particularly 608 00:26:21,390 --> 00:26:19,330 unfortunate anti-evolution law and it 609 00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:21,400 looks very much like the Senate will 610 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,590 follow suit the Senate's bill is a 611 00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:25,360 little bit different but they shouldn't 612 00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,790 be hard to reconcile and unfortunately 613 00:26:32,430 --> 00:26:30,400 the legislature doesn't adjourn until 614 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:32,440 the end of may so there's about six 615 00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:34,690 weeks to do it so things aren't looking 616 00:26:39,149 --> 00:26:35,590 good 617 00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:39,159 so what else you have coming up we're 618 00:26:44,190 --> 00:26:40,960 watching a number of other states where 619 00:26:47,399 --> 00:26:44,200 there's legislation pending and our 620 00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,409 major concern right now is these these 621 00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:49,360 academic freedom axes they're called 622 00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:52,720 because this is an idea that's been 623 00:26:58,980 --> 00:26:56,500 around for actually since about two 624 00:27:01,169 --> 00:26:58,990 thousand four and there's every year 625 00:27:03,690 --> 00:27:01,179 there's a rash of it expels every year 626 00:27:05,370 --> 00:27:03,700 our allies at the grassroots level bless 627 00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:05,380 their hearts managed to keep these guys 628 00:27:10,409 --> 00:27:07,840 bottled up when the tulip slipped 629 00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:10,419 through one in 2008 in Louisiana and 630 00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:13,480 then this year in Tennessee not by the 631 00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:15,640 way for lack of trying our friends in 632 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:17,740 Louisiana where our allies in Tennessee 633 00:27:22,919 --> 00:27:19,330 these folks have worked very very hard 634 00:27:24,539 --> 00:27:22,929 but sometimes sometimes the politics is 635 00:27:26,409 --> 00:27:24,549 just stacked too hard against you and 636 00:27:28,419 --> 00:27:26,419 and that's the situation 637 00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:28,429 those two states so what are you doing 638 00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:30,049 those cases when let's get gotten to 639 00:27:35,289 --> 00:27:33,049 that point well first of all we look 640 00:27:38,049 --> 00:27:35,299 very carefully at the deal we ask our 641 00:27:42,450 --> 00:27:38,059 legal advisory committee to scrutinize 642 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:42,460 the way these bills are crafted because 643 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:45,230 frankly nobody wants to make that law 644 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:49,970 yeah and what you want to do is if you 645 00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,129 have to challenge something legally and 646 00:27:56,889 --> 00:27:54,559 you know there have been almost 40 of 647 00:27:59,200 --> 00:27:56,899 these bills and 38 of them and then 648 00:28:02,200 --> 00:27:59,210 bottled up so obviously you know clearly 649 00:28:04,029 --> 00:28:02,210 the the our efforts have been not placed 650 00:28:05,619 --> 00:28:04,039 on litigation our efforts are placed on 651 00:28:06,909 --> 00:28:05,629 getting these things that bottled up in 652 00:28:09,729 --> 00:28:06,919 the first place and not getting them 653 00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:09,739 fast we always prefer to work behind the 654 00:28:14,909 --> 00:28:12,799 scenes and work off stage that to avoid 655 00:28:18,159 --> 00:28:14,919 litigation nobody wants to go to court 656 00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:18,169 but when these kinds of bills passed 657 00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:20,980 then the decision has to be made and 658 00:28:28,479 --> 00:28:24,799 with the Louisiana bill it you know the 659 00:28:30,729 --> 00:28:28,489 facts just weren't right these bills are 660 00:28:33,070 --> 00:28:30,739 written very cleverly so that they are 661 00:28:35,649 --> 00:28:33,080 less I mean they're deliberately written 662 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:35,659 so that they will be less susceptible to 663 00:28:39,729 --> 00:28:37,970 an Establishment Clause challenge I 664 00:28:41,169 --> 00:28:39,739 establishment clause in the u.s. of 665 00:28:42,460 --> 00:28:41,179 course is the part of our First 666 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:42,470 Amendment 667 00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:46,250 calls for public institutions to be 668 00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:49,280 religiously neutral the separation of 669 00:28:52,419 --> 00:28:50,600 church and state is how it's usually 670 00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:52,429 phrase but it's actually much more so 671 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:54,200 much more subtle and some respect more 672 00:29:01,149 --> 00:28:58,250 powerful than that so you don't want to 673 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:01,159 make bad law so what you kind of have to 674 00:29:09,310 --> 00:29:07,090 do is in without the ability or the 675 00:29:11,399 --> 00:29:09,320 prospect of success of a facial 676 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:11,409 challenge challenging a bill on its face 677 00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:15,080 you have to catch somebody in the act if 678 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:16,940 you will you have to catch that teacher 679 00:29:22,899 --> 00:29:20,090 who have stepped over the line we have 680 00:29:24,850 --> 00:29:22,909 to try to find where a teacher is 681 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:24,860 teaching some form of creationism which 682 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:27,770 the courts have been very consistent in 683 00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:31,250 declaring unconstitutional and use that 684 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:34,700 example of how this bill does cause harm 685 00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:37,130 and so even though the bill sounds very 686 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:39,230 innocent here's how it's being played 687 00:29:43,539 --> 00:29:41,330 out judge this bill should be struck 688 00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:43,549 down because or this law should be 689 00:29:47,950 --> 00:29:45,679 struck down it's a hurting a lot the law 690 00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:47,960 should be struck down because it is 691 00:29:52,299 --> 00:29:50,630 being used to promote religion yeah but 692 00:29:56,049 --> 00:29:52,309 that's a lot tougher yeah it's a lot 693 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:56,059 harder to find somebody catching 694 00:30:01,600 --> 00:29:57,490 somebody in the act so this beam right 695 00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:01,610 so are you going to be at tam yes I'm 696 00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:03,230 going to be a tempest year are you going 697 00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:07,280 to be on same similar talker um I don't 698 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:09,260 know Tam's a long way away you know do 699 00:30:13,149 --> 00:30:11,809 you know how many talks away I got I 700 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:13,159 haven't even thought of what I'm going 701 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:15,210 to say attend 702 00:30:19,549 --> 00:30:17,250 I don't think anyway may have sent him 703 00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:19,559 an abstract but you know I don't prepare 704 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:22,020 the talks until shortly before that the 705 00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,730 actual presentation because it's a lot 706 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:25,200 fresher that way and i can add new 707 00:30:29,180 --> 00:30:27,450 things I mean this talk that I'm giving 708 00:30:33,049 --> 00:30:29,190 this afternoon is truly hot off the 709 00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:33,059 press Oh deal with the I'm going to I'm 710 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:34,529 going to do something that I hardly ever 711 00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:37,770 do in the talk which is provide text we 712 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:40,230 should look at because I I think that i 713 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:41,580 think there's there's hardly anything 714 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:44,610 worse than a than the speaker who shows 715 00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:47,130 the audience line after line of words 716 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:48,630 and that there's hardly anything more 717 00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:50,250 boring than that but unfortunately I do 718 00:30:55,370 --> 00:30:52,799 have to show people the words here 719 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:55,380 because that is what that is what you 720 00:30:59,690 --> 00:30:57,570 need to know about okay a subtlety with 721 00:31:01,880 --> 00:30:59,700 which these bills are being crafted yeah 722 00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:01,890 well I'm looking forward to hearing your 723 00:31:07,399 --> 00:31:04,679 talk here and TAM night thank you very 724 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:07,409 much I'm looking forward to the rest of 725 00:31:16,019 --> 00:31:09,510 this meeting because this adventure 726 00:31:23,789 --> 00:31:19,830 I it's travis here and i'm sitting here 727 00:31:27,779 --> 00:31:23,799 with Dale Roy my wife and vice president 728 00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:27,789 of Granite State skeptics hello and what 729 00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:32,320 do you think of Nexus 3 really liked it 730 00:31:39,629 --> 00:31:35,919 thought it was a huge difference from 731 00:31:42,509 --> 00:31:39,639 the first one and a lot of really good 732 00:31:44,570 --> 00:31:42,519 talks and panels and I thought it was 733 00:31:48,089 --> 00:31:44,580 good that they extended it to two days 734 00:31:50,969 --> 00:31:48,099 yes I agree the doing at multiple days 735 00:31:53,009 --> 00:31:50,979 was fantastic yeah especially having the 736 00:31:55,139 --> 00:31:53,019 after-hours events the two drinking 737 00:31:58,019 --> 00:31:55,149 skeptically oh those were a lot of fun 738 00:32:00,029 --> 00:31:58,029 yeah and then they have a few museum 739 00:32:01,739 --> 00:32:00,039 visits that we didn't get to go to but I 740 00:32:05,639 --> 00:32:01,749 heard that they were really good yes 741 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:05,649 stupid work got in the way yeah so what 742 00:32:13,379 --> 00:32:09,129 which talks did you enjoy I enjoyed Phil 743 00:32:16,499 --> 00:32:13,389 Plait stock yeah I enjoyed the panel on 744 00:32:18,869 --> 00:32:16,509 information overload yes I I really 745 00:32:24,239 --> 00:32:18,879 enjoyed that one as well it was nice to 746 00:32:25,859 --> 00:32:24,249 hear Sadie Crabtree in person yes I was 747 00:32:27,899 --> 00:32:25,869 very impressed with what she had to say 748 00:32:31,349 --> 00:32:27,909 on the panel it was also good to meet 749 00:32:32,339 --> 00:32:31,359 her drinking skeptically yeah yeah it's 750 00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:32,349 always good to catch up with friends 751 00:32:39,209 --> 00:32:35,950 these conferences yeah and we saw plenty 752 00:32:42,479 --> 00:32:39,219 of placebo bands those were good good to 753 00:32:45,719 --> 00:32:42,489 hand out yes drinking skeptically with 754 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:45,729 George Arab was a packed packed event oh 755 00:32:54,499 --> 00:32:49,330 yes overflowing to the street yes 756 00:32:58,169 --> 00:32:54,509 literally sgy oh yes it is a fantastic 757 00:33:00,839 --> 00:32:58,179 thing to experience yeah always good to 758 00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:00,849 hear this GU life so what'd you think of 759 00:33:08,209 --> 00:33:04,119 Phil Plait stock I thought it was really 760 00:33:12,979 --> 00:33:08,219 good I liked how he was able to mix 761 00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:12,989 calculus of all things in with his 762 00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:15,940 explanation on at what point do you make 763 00:33:21,889 --> 00:33:18,299 a decision on what evidence to believe 764 00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:21,899 yeah it was basically he made it like a 765 00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:24,609 explained it similar to a staircase that 766 00:33:29,530 --> 00:33:27,110 you can never get to the end 767 00:33:32,530 --> 00:33:29,540 that the steps end up getting closer and 768 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:32,540 closer but you never reached the top was 769 00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:34,730 I was it what was it called the epsilon 770 00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:38,660 yeah yes that was that was very good 771 00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:40,820 does there's a point that you reach 772 00:33:45,130 --> 00:33:43,760 where you have to just believe what 773 00:33:47,530 --> 00:33:45,140 you're going to believe based on the 774 00:33:49,630 --> 00:33:47,540 evidence you have I wish someone was 775 00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:49,640 able to explain calculus to me that 776 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:51,440 easily when I was actually taking the 777 00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:55,610 course many moons ago and the the 778 00:34:00,190 --> 00:33:57,679 information overload talk with our panel 779 00:34:02,350 --> 00:34:00,200 is very very good yeah I really 780 00:34:05,289 --> 00:34:02,360 appreciate that because I certainly feel 781 00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:05,299 like we're in an explosion of 782 00:34:13,149 --> 00:34:09,230 availability of information no very 783 00:34:15,700 --> 00:34:13,159 difficult to distinguish at times what 784 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:15,710 is reliable and what is not so I guess 785 00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:32,149 hey bro hey bro what's this message you 786 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:33,840 sent me about a million dollars skeptic 787 00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:35,250 bros don't come and finally cracked it a 788 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:36,720 detection device that will prove the 789 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:39,090 existence of the paranormal what let me 790 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:43,169 assure you hey why are we in a cupboard 791 00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:46,649 check it out a new placebo band and it's 792 00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:49,919 glowing yes in the dark that's when the 793 00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:52,409 ghosts are about we're gonna win Randy's 794 00:34:56,659 --> 00:34:54,929 million dollars I'm going home let me 795 00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:56,669 out can't go but only opens from the 796 00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:02,160 outside go to scare dick balls get a 797 00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:04,950 glow the doxy bulb and where you gonna 798 00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:14,820 go skeptic both the car now here's a 799 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:17,630 report from the Today Tonight program as 800 00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:21,330 seen in Adelaide this story went to air 801 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:23,160 in Adelaide I hope we'll go to the air 802 00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:25,710 around the country it's the audio from 803 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:27,270 the report you don't need the pictures 804 00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:29,850 and it's all about the modern witchcraft 805 00:35:39,970 --> 00:35:37,839 homeopathy generates billions of dollars 806 00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:39,980 in global sales of its so-called natural 807 00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:42,470 medicines these alternative treatments 808 00:35:46,839 --> 00:35:44,390 are used for all kinds of ailments in 809 00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,849 both adults and children but what's 810 00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:49,040 really in them and do they actually work 811 00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,230 or are they nothing more than expensive 812 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:53,599 placebos well Frank Bangalow went 813 00:36:03,670 --> 00:35:55,490 looking for those answers and what he 814 00:36:06,579 --> 00:36:03,680 found will shock you know herbs no 815 00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:06,589 ingredients is more like witchcraft and 816 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:09,920 science after 200 years and after 200 817 00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:12,770 clinical trials there is still no good 818 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:15,920 evidence at all for any condition that 819 00:36:20,859 --> 00:36:18,490 homeopathy works yet homeopathy 820 00:36:24,309 --> 00:36:20,869 continues to thrive virtually 821 00:36:26,849 --> 00:36:24,319 unchallenged unproven products labeled 822 00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:26,859 natural medicine sitting alongside 823 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:29,300 conventional medicines on pharmacy 824 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:32,210 shelves scandalous says Richard Saunders 825 00:36:36,549 --> 00:36:34,970 of the Australian skeptics you know 826 00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,559 there are laws in this country about the 827 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:38,240 false labeling of medicine and 828 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:40,490 homeopathy which claims to be medicine 829 00:36:45,609 --> 00:36:43,250 should be subject to those same laws the 830 00:36:49,329 --> 00:36:45,619 principles of homeopathy make no sense 831 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:49,339 whatsoever that like cures like in other 832 00:36:54,549 --> 00:36:51,650 words the substance that causes a 833 00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:54,559 symptom will cure a symptom so for 834 00:37:00,520 --> 00:36:57,950 insomnia caffeine a stimulant is the 835 00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:00,530 main ingredient now this might seem a 836 00:37:03,970 --> 00:37:02,750 little counterintuitive but this is 837 00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:03,980 where the second principle behind 838 00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:06,470 homeopathic comes in the idea is when 839 00:37:10,839 --> 00:37:08,660 you start diluting out the substance it 840 00:37:12,940 --> 00:37:10,849 goes from being something the cause of 841 00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:12,950 something to something that takes away 842 00:37:19,539 --> 00:37:16,190 the cause that's the most controversial 843 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:19,549 aspect and has scientists like dr. Ian 844 00:37:25,150 --> 00:37:22,130 Musgrave from the Adelaide University's 845 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:25,160 School of pharmacology reeling in utter 846 00:37:30,370 --> 00:37:28,010 disbelief what is the problem here is 847 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:30,380 that homey paths are using very very 848 00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,410 large delusions here's the absurdity of 849 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:35,839 this so-called natural medicine the 850 00:37:40,210 --> 00:37:37,849 active ingredients have been diluted in 851 00:37:42,839 --> 00:37:40,220 water to such an extent I'm talking 852 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:42,849 about millions upon millions on millions 853 00:37:46,930 --> 00:37:46,250 upon millions of times that's the 854 00:37:50,650 --> 00:37:46,940 equivalent 855 00:37:52,990 --> 00:37:50,660 of me placing a drop in the ocean you're 856 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:53,000 getting a dose of nothing when have you 857 00:38:01,120 --> 00:37:55,790 perhaps talk about delusions they often 858 00:38:02,859 --> 00:38:01,130 talk in terms of 1 C 2 C 3 C where C 859 00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:02,869 stands for a dilution of one and a 860 00:38:09,099 --> 00:38:05,599 hundred you'll find that information on 861 00:38:12,849 --> 00:38:09,109 the labels so 30 see in these two 862 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:12,859 products indicates a drop or molecule of 863 00:38:18,970 --> 00:38:16,010 the active ingredient into all of the 864 00:38:20,319 --> 00:38:18,980 Earth's oceans now most hobby path will 865 00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:20,329 agree with that they say okay let's find 866 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:24,400 there is no original substance in there 867 00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:27,640 what's happening is somehow the water is 868 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:30,710 memorizing or carrying the imprint of 869 00:38:35,319 --> 00:38:32,690 the original chemical in there this 870 00:38:37,690 --> 00:38:35,329 claim is absolutely ridiculous because 871 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:37,700 if water had a memory then it would 872 00:38:41,890 --> 00:38:40,010 remember every bit of sewage it's ever 873 00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:41,900 been in contact with doesn't sound very 874 00:38:46,770 --> 00:38:44,839 nice it's forward science or it's not 875 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:46,780 even flawed science it's flawed alchemy 876 00:38:53,069 --> 00:38:50,450 so with dr. Musgrave we became guinea 877 00:38:56,109 --> 00:38:53,079 pigs testing the sleep and insomnia 878 00:38:58,210 --> 00:38:56,119 tablets made by the large South 879 00:39:01,089 --> 00:38:58,220 Australian homeopathic medicine 880 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:01,099 manufacturer brow is only tablets in 881 00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:03,470 here you're going to take 40 I'm going 882 00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:05,150 to take 40 then I'm going to interview 883 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:06,800 you and let's see how we feel at the end 884 00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:08,690 of the interview well if I fall asleep 885 00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:10,190 during the interview you know it's 886 00:39:15,819 --> 00:39:14,480 working what if I do then they're not 887 00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:15,829 just keep on talking I'm very good at 888 00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:19,220 that ok well let's overdose on these 889 00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:23,839 sleeping pills of course we strongly 890 00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:26,480 advise against doing this with any other 891 00:39:32,890 --> 00:39:29,510 sleeping pills but you'll soon see what 892 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:32,900 happens to us still homeopaths of the 893 00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:34,810 homeopathic association's national 894 00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:37,430 president Michelle Holcomb remain 895 00:39:42,609 --> 00:39:40,040 resolute the way the medicines are made 896 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:42,619 is very hard for the scientific body to 897 00:39:47,890 --> 00:39:44,450 get their heads around that it is it is 898 00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:47,900 a difficult area and people think that 899 00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:49,940 one day quantum physics will be able to 900 00:39:55,210 --> 00:39:53,140 explain just how such ultra dilutions of 901 00:39:57,530 --> 00:39:55,220 substances can still have a medicinal 902 00:39:59,260 --> 00:39:57,540 effect Nicole Reynolds 903 00:40:02,030 --> 00:39:59,270 is one of Michelle's clients and 904 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:02,040 maintains it works for her and her 905 00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:05,130 children I guess seeing it's worked for 906 00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:07,140 250 years and it's spread over the world 907 00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:09,660 and millions of people use it can't be 908 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:11,040 too bad there must be something in it 909 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:13,410 homeopathy is a complementary medicine 910 00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,130 it can be used in conjunction with other 911 00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:18,720 therapies and treatments and regular 912 00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:21,150 Orthodox medical treatment Michelle 913 00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:23,430 hukum claims there are many studies 914 00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:26,220 which support homeopathy much of them 915 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:29,460 not independently scrutinized it's very 916 00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:31,770 hard to measure homeopathy with the 917 00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:34,140 using the benchmark of the randomized 918 00:40:38,540 --> 00:40:36,420 clinical trial and the reason for that 919 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:38,550 is because of the individualized nature 920 00:40:44,830 --> 00:40:42,330 of the treatment itself o my lord o my 921 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:44,840 counter Cinderella do it in this dress 922 00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:47,730 but Fanning the flames of popular 923 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:50,070 support for this bizarre industry are 924 00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:52,410 the rich and famous like actress 925 00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:55,740 Catherine zeta-jones singers Tina Turner 926 00:41:02,360 --> 00:40:58,890 and share the Beckham's and the royal 927 00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:02,370 family in fact the Queen's physician dr. 928 00:41:08,090 --> 00:41:04,830 peter fisher is a champion for the 929 00:41:11,090 --> 00:41:08,100 floored cause i have never seen a 930 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:11,100 credible scientific study that backs up 931 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:13,260 homeopathy in fact the UK government 932 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:15,330 last year did a completely independent 933 00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:17,370 look in all the studies of homeopathy 934 00:41:24,110 --> 00:41:20,880 and concluded that there was no credible 935 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:24,120 evidence for it homeopathy is back where 936 00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:26,610 it started without any credible 937 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:29,920 scientific explanation 938 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:32,170 that won't stop millions of people 939 00:41:38,050 --> 00:41:35,410 putting their faith in it but science is 940 00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:38,060 confident 941 00:41:43,780 --> 00:41:41,780 homeopathy is impossible that was the 942 00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:43,790 conclusion in an exhaustive 943 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:46,400 comprehensive experiment conducted by 944 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:50,210 the BBC using eminent British scientists 945 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:53,330 at stake a million dollars put up by 946 00:41:59,170 --> 00:41:56,690 skeptic James Randi if proved that it 947 00:42:01,570 --> 00:41:59,180 worked homeopathy is one of the biggest 948 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:01,580 health stands in America and it's a 949 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:04,310 problem around the globe his cash is 950 00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:06,710 still up for grabs along with one 951 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:08,630 hundred thousand dollars from Richard 952 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:11,690 Saunders and twenty thousand offered by 953 00:42:17,350 --> 00:42:14,690 Simon Singh author of the best seller 954 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:17,360 trick or treatment so conventional 955 00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:20,570 medicine and science and rationalism has 956 00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,440 brought us a huge amount of good and and 957 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:25,760 it's worrying that there's been this 958 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:27,770 rise and its undoubted there's a rise in 959 00:42:32,530 --> 00:42:30,410 alternative therapies and many of them 960 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:32,540 are unproven disproven downright 961 00:42:38,590 --> 00:42:36,170 dangerous and the most disturbing and 962 00:42:41,830 --> 00:42:38,600 tragic case against it is that of Sydney 963 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:41,840 homeopath Thomas Sam and his wife Manju 964 00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,510 are now serving a jail term for the 965 00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:46,160 manslaughter of their baby daughter 966 00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,280 Gloria after they chose homeopathic 967 00:42:54,580 --> 00:42:51,920 remedies ahead of conventional medicine 968 00:42:57,070 --> 00:42:54,590 to treat the child's serious skin 969 00:42:59,530 --> 00:42:57,080 disorder oddly enough I wouldn't be able 970 00:43:00,700 --> 00:42:59,540 to treat anybody's pets if you're going 971 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:00,710 to treat an animal you have to be a 972 00:43:04,810 --> 00:43:02,930 fully qualified vet but to truly human 973 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:04,820 it seems like anybody's allowed to do 974 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:07,010 that and there's that there's a real 975 00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:09,170 danger associated with that you'll find 976 00:43:17,410 --> 00:43:12,560 that a lot of the homeopathic medicines 977 00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:17,420 are registered under a slightly lower 978 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:20,480 scale of evidence then the medicines 979 00:43:25,090 --> 00:43:23,090 that we normally take alarmingly there 980 00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:25,100 are some homeopaths who peddle their 981 00:43:30,490 --> 00:43:27,320 concoctions as alternatives to 982 00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:30,500 vaccinations all this loony advice to 983 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:32,870 treat radiation sickness which was 984 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:35,210 distributed in the wake of the problems 985 00:43:41,230 --> 00:43:37,970 from the damaged Japanese nuclear power 986 00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:41,240 plant the idea that these sugar pills 987 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:42,710 can be used to help people with 988 00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:45,710 radiation sickness or as a substitute 989 00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,280 for childhood vaccinations is ludicrous 990 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:51,200 it's dangerous and these people should 991 00:43:53,420 --> 00:43:51,690 be 992 00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:53,430 executed for putting people's lives in 993 00:43:57,410 --> 00:43:55,380 danger like i said it's very sweet I'm 994 00:44:00,200 --> 00:43:57,420 enjoying the sugary taste however no 995 00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:00,210 chance of any harm for dr. Musgrave and 996 00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:03,599 me after our fix which tasted more like 997 00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:07,200 sugar oh look out tablets about 20 998 00:44:14,660 --> 00:44:10,230 minutes ago you're feeling well I must 999 00:44:16,849 --> 00:44:14,670 say I'm feeling quite awake it doesn't 1000 00:44:18,980 --> 00:44:16,859 seem to have had an effect does it no no 1001 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:18,990 but we probably should make this a 1002 00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:22,560 little bit longer to see if if we doze 1003 00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:24,420 off in the middle of our of speaking 1004 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:27,300 these so-called medicines are really 1005 00:44:32,660 --> 00:44:30,510 expensive placebo gram for gram it's 1006 00:44:34,609 --> 00:44:32,670 more expensive than sterling silver you 1007 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:34,619 get a much bigger bang for your buck 1008 00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:36,390 with the good old fashioned jelly beans 1009 00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:39,089 we wanted to talk to brown natural 1010 00:44:43,450 --> 00:44:41,310 medicine about their products but after 1011 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:43,460 initially agreeing they backed out 1012 00:44:48,650 --> 00:44:46,410 Richard Saunders says it's time for our 1013 00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:48,660 health officials to get tough on the 1014 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:50,910 whole industry I think the health 1015 00:44:54,290 --> 00:44:52,770 authorities have been reluctant to act 1016 00:44:55,940 --> 00:44:54,300 against this stuff because there's 1017 00:44:58,579 --> 00:44:55,950 nothing in it there's nothing for them 1018 00:45:01,700 --> 00:44:58,589 to act against but what we want to see 1019 00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:01,710 happen tomorrow is these labels stuck on 1020 00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:04,440 every packet of homeopathy it's not 1021 00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:06,060 medicine and the public need to know 1022 00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:12,359 that and ironically the Therapeutic 1023 00:45:16,609 --> 00:45:14,609 Goods Administration tells us the area 1024 00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:16,619 remains unregulated because the 1025 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:18,780 medicines are low risk and contain low 1026 00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:21,450 concentrations of ingredients or as we 1027 00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:24,060 found mainly sugar or water however the 1028 00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,609 TGA says it is developing new guidelines 1029 00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:28,800 to ensure they remain safe but again as 1030 00:45:38,999 --> 00:45:31,020 Frank discovered there seems to be no 1031 00:45:45,099 --> 00:45:41,589 we take you now to a conversation being 1032 00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,109 shattered across a hillside what I said 1033 00:45:50,799 --> 00:45:47,599 I'm trying to come up with a browser for 1034 00:45:54,579 --> 00:45:50,809 this podcast podcast the geologic 1035 00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,589 podcast water geologic podcast Oh Hobbs 1036 00:45:59,140 --> 00:45:56,960 pointless meanderings skeptical 1037 00:46:01,539 --> 00:45:59,150 observations ridiculous musical 1038 00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:01,549 interludes and not the hint of geology 1039 00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:03,920 all right maybe a little bit of geology 1040 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:06,319 what's not worth it achenbach he's got 1041 00:46:11,410 --> 00:46:08,930 the religious bore out of the week she 1042 00:46:13,870 --> 00:46:11,420 owes about grades jay-z lyrics pointless 1043 00:46:16,569 --> 00:46:13,880 ask George who cares what the Boston 1044 00:46:18,729 --> 00:46:16,579 face is just a fun beach the horoscope 1045 00:46:21,849 --> 00:46:18,739 gotta be shot in the Bible morning guys 1046 00:46:23,890 --> 00:46:21,859 its on science stupid your adventures of 1047 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:23,900 the Philadelphia funk authority what 1048 00:46:27,549 --> 00:46:25,729 Ukrainian boy playing drums the funk 1049 00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:27,559 band must be fascinating but none of 1050 00:46:33,779 --> 00:46:30,079 that is appealing even a we beat right 1051 00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:33,789 dad two min then I would find a sweet 1052 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:47,430 geologic podcast pointless but free 1053 00:46:47,440 --> 00:47:01,010 children podcast 1054 00:47:04,830 --> 00:47:03,300 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1055 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:04,840 zone hey listen if you thought that 1056 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:07,330 Frank bangalow the reporter on today 1057 00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:09,970 tonight the guy you just heard doing the 1058 00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:12,910 homeopathy story did a good report and I 1059 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:16,750 think he did if you google today tonight 1060 00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:20,010 and Adelaide you can leave a message 1061 00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:24,070 encouraging and supporting what they did 1062 00:47:29,550 --> 00:47:27,760 because I think at times the media don't 1063 00:47:32,460 --> 00:47:29,560 really come to our help but sometimes 1064 00:47:35,010 --> 00:47:32,470 they come through with a with bells on 1065 00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:35,020 and that was a great report so thanks to 1066 00:47:40,170 --> 00:47:37,150 today tonight and thank you for 1067 00:47:43,050 --> 00:47:40,180 listening to the skeptic zone lots more 1068 00:47:44,910 --> 00:47:43,060 coming up as always and I look forward 1069 00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:44,920 to your company and I hope you look 1070 00:47:50,130 --> 00:47:47,710 forward to our company next week until 1071 00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:50,140 then this is Richard Saunders signing 1072 00:48:00,060 --> 00:47:56,800 off from Sydney Australia you've been 1073 00:48:04,650 --> 00:48:00,070 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 1074 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:04,660 website at www skeptic zone TV for